Other Articles - New to DAT?
by Patrick M Chase
[ This document was posted to DAT-Heads Digest #326 on 23 March 1997 ]
From: Patrick M Chase
Subject: New to DAT summary posting [long]
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 22:23:20 -0500
This is a summary post of the responses that I got related to getting into DAT. Perhaps it can help someone else make some better/more informed decisions. Everyone was VERY helpful and practically everyone that responded to me offered to spin tapes for me as well. This document is about 17 pages in length -- I hope it can help someone.
For the record, I bought a Tascam DA-20 from Jim Oade at HiFi Sounds for $725 shipped. I bought a bunch of KAO labelled tapes from Terrapin Tapes, and I'm planning on getting the 5-year aftermarket warranty from Terrapin as well.
-- Patrick Chase
This was my original post to the DAT-Heads list:
You folks must be sick of hearing these questions. ;^). I'm thinking
about going DAT so I read the FAQ, the market study, asked around,
subscribed to this group, read back-posts, and hunted through
advertisements and web pages. The result is that I'm informed but
confused! ;^)
I need a setup suitable for trading primarily Grateful Dead and Phish
soundboards. I don't do my own taping so portability isn't necessary
(but might come in handy). I figure that I can start with one deck and
to spread costs out, get another one later. Thinking about it from an
analog standpoint, I'm thinking I need a basic high-quality simple deck
for a "play" deck and a more full-featured "record" deck with better
controls and features. Cost is a factor -- I'd like to keep it as low as
possible. It seems to be an easy task to spend lots on DAT gear. With
warranties, options, cables, and tapes, it won't be hard to spend more
than I'd like. I'd like to keep it as far under $1000 at possible this
first time out.
What I've been thinking: something like a D8 for the first deck since
it's the cheapest thing out there and will get me started with the
lowest up front cash. My concern here is that with the extended warranty
and the RM-D3K option (which I'll need for digital dubbing later,
right?) I'm close to the cost of a low-end pro deck or a high end
consumer deck. Then again, the D8 gives me the option to move it around
and bring it with me and/or add mics later and take it to shows.
Then I figured I'd add a decent consumer home deck later. I've been
looking at the SONY DTC-790 and similar decks. There's alot of decks out
there with really similar part numbers and I get them all mixed up. So
far I haven't actually put my hands on a single deck.
Concerns: SCMS. If my source tapes are almost all audience and
soundboard DATs, will SCMS effect me? I mean, I'll be copying material
that shouldn't be protected in the first place, right? My concern is
that if I buy deck(s) that doesn't give me SCMS control I may have to
add a SCMS stripper later -- more $$ later rather than upfront with the
cost of the initial deck. Also, is it an issue with BOTH decks?! (i.e.,
do I need to worry about how SCMS is treated with both the play and the
record deck)?.
Cabling: What's the deal with that SONY RM-D3K option for the D8? Do I
need to worry about what each deck has for in/out in terms of coax vs.
optical? I'd just assume have two decks that support in/out digital and
analog and in a fashion that the two work together without issue (cables
and interfaces). I get the impression that there are three interfaces to
worry about: coax i/o (AES/EBU (XLR?)), optical i/o (SPDIF), and of
course analog RCA i/o. Looks like each model/brand selects the
combination of interfaces that are available. I'm worried about getting
stuck.
Samplings rates: I see the whole range listed with the usual 44, 48, and
others. I'll want the capability to go to CD-R and DVD later. I get the
feeling that specific models support specific sampling rates on specific
interfaces (i.e., perhaps one rate on the SPDIF interfaces, but maybe
three sampling rates on the analog interfaces). Again, I worry about
getting stuck with the wrong combination. Should I worry?
What low-cost configurations are you folks using? I can imagine two D8s
connected together for the cheapest (is it?) solution. I'd rather have
two decent home decks that fit into my existing audio setup. Portable is
an option due to cost (except for that Tascam model (DA-P1) which is
kinda expensive). I imagine a home deck and a D8 working OK for me.
Rack-mount stuff seems too "pro" for what I want, but maybe I'm ignorant
about it. Lastly, ya think it's better to get the better deck first?
My last concern is more a matter of convenience and etiquette. I worry
that not being able to clone for the next bunch of months may be a
problem. I do almost all my trading on the net, but I've always traded
(cassette) and never had to worry about blanks and postage. I can't
imagine not being able to make dubs for other people. How much of a
problem is this to those single deck folks out there? I assume that with
the cost of DAT, there's plenty of people out there with a single deck.
Analog is so simple in comparison! I appreciate any help you can throw
me.
I took the plunge just three weeks ago; after some research, here's what I bought:
Deck 1 (bought first): Tascam DA-20; I paid $789 for it (a little high
but I was able to buy locally in case I have a problem plus get it 90
days same as cash, which was a good thing - see below); I chose the
Tascam because 1) It has RCA ins and outs, which the other deck I
considered, the Fostex D-5, does not (although the two machines are
largely identical save for the cabling, which is XLR on the Fostex); 2)
the SCMS is defeatable. I think a DA-20 can be had for as little as
$725; check with the Oades, Terrapin or the DAT store.
I had the DA-20 for a week when I said, fuck it, let's go the full nine.
So I bought:
Deck 2: Sony D-8; paid $594 at the DAT store (they matched a price for
me, and will for you too). I did not buy any Sony options with it. I
chose the D-8 because of its price and portability, as I play in a rock
band too and wanted to roost it on the soundboard from time to time.
I also purchased a cable from Core Sound to allow the decks to clone
digitally from the D* 7-pin connector to the coaxial input on the DA-20
(I use the Sony as the play deck and the DA-20 to record to get around
SCMS problems); the cable was $30 and while it is rather flimsy looking,
it works fine, and was much cheaper than the Sony offering to use the
D-8 as the play deck, which would have run me about $200 (you gotta buy
this remote control deal with it). Sony does sell a cable which goes
coax to 7-pin, but it only works in one direction; recording on the D-8.
BTW, I stayed away from the Sony home decks because the adhere to the
SCMS deal, and also because a couple folks told me the Sony stuff is
problematic, although I heard mostly good things about the D7 and D8.
Also, for what it's worth, I bought 5-year warranties on both decks
through Terrapin ($100 each).
A response:
first of all, unless you do live taping, get a home
deck, don't bother with a portable (due to the
maintenance requirements and such).
SONY is OK (I got myself 1 SONY - but I have
4 DAT deck anywayz)...
I would highly suggest a D5 or DA-20, I have a
D5 myself and its solid...although both da-20 and
D5 have most of the same innards...?
ONly downside w/ D5 is that it has XLR I/O (analog
and digital), most others have RCA...D5 does have
an optical I/O which is good if you have 1 consumer
grade SONY...
stay away from portables until you can afford a good
one (otherwize, you'll be sorry in the long run)..unless
you need to tape live, often...
as to SCMS,...if you have 00 SCMS tapes to begin
with, then its no problems, if you have a consumer
level deck (d5 is pro level), then if you have non-00
SCMS tapes, you will have problems dubbing tapes
to another consumer deck (pro decks ignores the
SCMS).
as to the 44.1k, you gotta get a pro deck to
record analog 44.1 (CD-R), most decks can
digitally record at 44.1 (from another deck)
A response:
do not buy a portable deck for your first deck. they tend to break
down a lot more frequently -- what you want is something solid that
you can listen to your tapes on for hours and hours. i have known
folks who have had good luck with D8s but i have heard many horror
stories too.
i would strongly recommend avoiding Sony. i have owned multiple 700,
75ES, 59ES and 60ES units and had problems with all of them. some of
them spent more time in the shop than in my office playing tapes. i
actually started with a 75ES, then bought a 700, then the 75ES broke
down and Sony eventually replaced it with a 59ES, which was defective
out of the box, and replaced with another 59ES, which broke down after
six weeks, and replaced with a 60ES, which has been better but has
been to the shop a few times. the 700 broke down too and again after
multiple trips was replaced with a 59ES which broke down and was
replaced with a 60ES. i now have two 60ES decks which i only use
occasionally because i'm worried about them getting flaky.
SCMS can be a problem.
the easiest solution in my mind is to purchase the Tascam DA-20. mail
order from Terrapin through the 28th is only $750 (i think that's
accurate) including UPS ground shipping. i have two of these decks
and they are great -- they use standard consumer audio connectors so
they integrate well with my home stereo, they defeat SCMS completely,
and they are built like tanks.
i bought mine blind on the recommendation of a friend without ever
seeing one and have been completely satisfied with the purchase.
i'd recommend buying one of these and keeping it for a while and then
deciding if you want another one or a portable. think hard about
exactly why you want a portable -- if you're just trying to save a few
$$$ i'd recommend not buying one. if you think the portability could
be an advantage (i.e. hooking to car stereo, travelling, taking to a
friend's place to dub) that's a different story.
if you advertise on the net and say you want to send blanks + postage
to folks to do dubbing for you, you should have no problem getting
help. i live and work in east cambridge, if you are patient and
wanted to drop off 10 or 20 tapes or so, i'd be happy to dub them for
you.
i'd recommend looking through old posts for DA-20 and take a look at
what people have said about it.
i'd also strongly strongly strongly recommend NOT using 90M tapes in
any of this equipment. most of the problems i've had in the past
appear to be directly linked to using 90M tapes. i haven't had a deck
in the shop in two years and that's precisely when i stopped using 90M
tapes.
A response:
> Concerns: SCMS. If my source tapes are almost all audience and
> soundboard DATs, will SCMS effect me?
Unfortunately, yes. This is because there are always these nasty SCMS bits on
the tape, simply because they are required. But that's not bad per se.
Unless a pro deck is used for recording the tape (or a good SCMS stripper is
envolved) the tape is encoded for limited copy. So if you receive a tape made
from a consumer deck without SCMS stripper, it is likely to have a code 10
which prohibits further copying with consumer decks.
>I mean, I'll be copying material that
> shouldn't be protected in the first place, right? My concern is that if I
> buy deck(s) that doesn't give me SCMS control I may have to add a SCMS
> stripper later -- more $$ later rather than upfront with the cost of the
> initial deck.
Yes, you got it right.
> Also, is it an issue with BOTH decks?! (i.e., do I need to
> worry about how SCMS is treated with both the play and the record deck)?.
No, all play decks I know of always transmit faithfully what they read from
the tape. It is up to the recording deck to handle SCMS. Thus if you use a
semi-pro deck such as Fostex D-5, Tascam DA-20, DA-25, DA-30, these decks
simply ignore SCMS when recording. At least, they could be switched to do so.
So if your recording deck follows SCMS, as all Sony consumer decks do, you
have to account for a SCMS stripper.
> Cabling: What's the deal with that SONY RM-D3K option for the D8? Do I need
> to worry about what each deck has for in/out in terms of coax vs. optical?
Nothing to worry: coax vs. optical is just a question of medium; the bits are
the same. AES/EBU has different control bits, the data bits are the same.
And a good SCMS stripper also translates between all 3 formats!
> Samplings rates: I see the whole range listed with the usual 44, 48, and
> others.
All DAT decks support the same range of sampling rates, at least when copying
digitally. Some older DAT decks do not support 44.1 ksps when recording
analogue !! signal. Some older pro decks do not support 32 ksps half speed.
Newer decks usually support all formats in all modes.
CD-R need 44.1 ksps @ 16 bits per sample, nothing else. Some S/P DIF cards
for a PC support re-sampling, so again, nothing to worry. What DVD will
support is still undefined...
>
> What low-cost configurations are you folks using? I can imagine two D8s
> connected together for the cheapest (is it?) solution.
I use a Tascam DA-30 mkII as primary deck and a Sony DTC 59 ES. The Sony
deck has seen the service several times while the work horse DA-30 looks
like new. Hence, the DA-30 is my cheapest deck! It is designed to work
for 2,000 hours without service.
But it is up to you how much reliability you need. When my deck would go
for service I would have to rent a deck which would cost $ 30 a day...
So the price may have different meanings to different people.
> Analog is so simple in comparison!
Na. I produce a lot of analogue tape and have to worry a lot more about
tape quality, adjusting bias and level for each individual tape, maintenance
of the mechanics to avoid wow and flutter. Troubles with spikes in the
power...
A response:
>I don't do my own taping so portability isn't necessary.
Then I'd strongly recommend a full-sized component deck. Most portables
(including the sony's) have half-sized heads, which wear much faster
than full-size. The most popular portables are the sony d7/d8s, which
are scms-bound (more below). :-( Portables are also rumored to be less
durable overall, though many would dispute this.
>I figure that I can start with one deck and
>to spread costs out, get another one later.
Or find a local 1-deck owner to hook up with. That way you can dupe
tapes for each other to trade, and raid each other's collections for new
stuff. It will save you $600 for a second deck you won't use that
often. Make a post to the digests looking for locals, search the
digests for posts made through any of your local Internet providers
(besides aol.com!) or universities, e-mail anyone who's made a post
about taping at a local club, etc. Or convince your best friend to buy
a dat. :-)
>Thinking about it from an
>analog standpoint, I'm thinking I need a basic high-quality simple deck
>for a "play" deck and a more full-featured "record" deck with better
>controls and features.
No, dat is dat. It's all digital (little 0's and 1's), so your dupes
will be the same no matter which deck you use to play or record. The
more expensive deck may *sound* better during playback - not because it
reads or records the tape any more accurately, but because it may have a
better digital-to-analog converter (that's the chip that translates the
0's and 1's into sound - AFTER they've been read from the tape and just
before the signal goes to the analog out connectors). CD players have
the same chip, which explains why a CD may sound better on a better CD
player even though it's still the exact same data.
Any full-sized deck (and most portables, besides the sony's) will have
more record features than most home tapers will ever need.
>Concerns: SCMS. If my source tapes are almost all audience and
>soundboard DATs, will SCMS effect me?
Yes. SCMS is put on by the deck as it records, not be record company
executives. From an analog source (LPs, tapes, mikes, CD's with an
*analog* out, whatever), every SCMS-bound deck records with scms=11
(restricted - 1 copy allowed). If you want to copy from a digital source
(say, that scms=11 tape you just made) it'll bump the dupe up to scms=10
(no copying). You could always copy the dupe by running it back into
the analog ins and re-starting the scms cycle, but then you start
getting gen loss.
Enter pro decks. The pro deck must always be used as the record deck,
any deck can be the play deck. Pro decks either ignore scms or some
(like the tascam da-20 or fostex d-5) will actually *re-set* scms to 00.
Interestingly, if your deck writes scms=00, and then you copy that tape
on a consumer deck, most (including the sonys) will *not* bump up the
scms codes. It'll still be 00, even though it was recorded on an
scms-bound deck. Weird, huh? But handy.
>Cabling: I'm worried about getting stuck.
If you get stuck, it'll cost $30-100+ for a coverter box to get unstuck.
Not the end of the world, just a hassle. If possible, find out what
you'll be hooking into (a PC, your friend's deck, your likely 2nd dat
deck) before you buy.
coax i/o - you can also use a regular RCA patch cord here, even for
digital copying (they both fit the jack, but the coax is more reliable
because it has better shielding). The data is transmitted according the
SPDIF "protocol."
optical i/o - also SPDIF. Same protocal, different media.
aes/beu or whatever - dunno much about 'em, except the fostex has 'em.
>Samplings rates: I see the whole range listed with the usual 44, 48, and
>others. I'll want the capability to go to CD-R and DVD later.
Then anything you master (record) yourself should be done at 44.1.
Caution - the old sony d7s won't record at 44.1 from analog inputs (e.g.
mikes, or those master reels in your attic), but once you get it into
44.1 digital format (either by using a different deck or, yes, another
adapter!!) (namely, a $400 external a/d converter box), the d7 will dupe
it.
But you'll probably just be duping stuff already on dat. In which case
no, you don't care. Every cable supports every rate, and the record
deck automatically matches the rate of the source. So this is a
non-issue. If you do ever record from analog, practically everything
but the d7 will do it at 44.1. Including the d8.
>What low-cost configurations are you folks using?
I'd recommend a pro deck first - tascam da-20 ($750), fostex d-5 ($950),
or the otari ??? ($850ish). They're all basically the same deck,
apparently ghost-manufactured by pioneer but with slightly different
software/firmware tweaks. Then you don't have to worry about finding a
local 1-decker and still not being able to dupe because of scms.
Then down the road get a sony d7/d8, plus a cable to connect it to
whichever pro deck you buy. It's cheap, portable, and since you'll only
use it when you're making dupes (or recording in clubs, or on the
subway), you won't wear out it's little heads.
If you find a local taping partner (with a pro deck) and come to a solid
partnership agreement with him up front, you could start with the sony.
Or a cheaper home deck (sony dtc-790 - $550?). But accept the fact that
you'll have to by an scms-stripper if your partner ever buys a 2nd deck
for himself and ditches you.
>I can't imagine not being able to make dubs for other people.
A few people work blanks & postage like this: You've got one deck, I've
got two. Send me your original tape (!) + a blank, plus return postage
and mailer. I'll copy your tape onto one of my personal blanks for me,
copy whatever show you wanted onto your blank, and return your (former)
blank and original. It's a regular 1:1 trade, just you pay all those
postage and I do all the taping. Most people are cool about this if
they know you're just starting out (except the guys who are anal about
tape head wear), and I've only heard of one creep who actually kept the
original and blank he was sent.
A response:
You mentioned a Sony D8 and 790. I bought a Sony 690 in the summer of 94. I
sold it a year and a half later for $275 and will be happy to never see it
again. It would secretly sneak dropouts and errors onto recordings. I'm sure
the 790 is improved, and Sony tried to make it better for me, but be wary. I
think the 60ES is the cheapest Sony that's reliable.
I have no experiece with the D8, but I would get it for portability rather
than cost. You need to buy _something_ to connect it digitally, and that
will drive up the cost. If the destination deck is the 790 you'll also need
a scms remover ($200) or do analog transfers which people can sometimes
detect. For example if they know your decks are not pro and you send them
tapes that are all scms 01 they'll know.
You could get a computer IO card that strips scms, then use it for cdr down
the road(I did this). On a PC the ZA2 is $350, the cheapest MAC card is $600
or $800 (can't remember).
You could get a pro deck for the destination and not have to worry about scms.
After cursing the 690 for 2 years I eventually bought a pair of Fostex D5's.
Ahh, I haven't had a single problem since. Keep in mind that I'm much better
at cleaning heads than I was. There are other comparable decks to the D5,
make up your own mind I guess, but consider one pro deck.
Yes you do have to worry about the connectors. Make sure the two decks can
be linked in the direction you need.
The D8 will record at 44.1. If you eventually get a CDR you should have some
software that will resample the file after it's on the computer. It's not
all that important how it starts out, and you don't want the decks
resampling it. (unless you have expensive decks)
A response:
I'm gonna buy a 2nd deck sometime, too. BTW, you might also consider
also the tascam da-p1 pro deck ($1250). It costs wayyyy more, but it's
portable, scms-free, larger than walkman-sized so tascam was able to use
full-sized heads, and has lots of goodies for use w/mikes (nice mic
preamp, phantom power, good a/d converter, etc.). With a cheapo home
deck ($550) you're up to $1,800, vs. $1500 for two da-20's or $1300 for
1 da-20 & 1 sony (portable or home). Just use the cheapo home deck as
your normal listening deck, and run it into the ground.
Or you could buy that kick-ass fostex pd-4. Only $4500 at the dat
store!!! :-) A nice deck, though.
A response:
I was in your position a few months ago. I looked at many different
decks in the sub $1000 range, and I ended up with a used Tascam DA-30
(not MK-II) for $550. For that price, it can't be beat - no SCMS, many
I/O options, and no problems in six months now. If you're not worried
about portability, I'd get another one for a second deck. I needed a D7
to tape shows with, so I got that instead... With all the accessories,
the D7 cost more than the Tascam, and I expect the Tascam to way outlive
the D7.
A response:
The Fostex has a few advantages, error meter (big one), reliablity, and a
better service department. Disadvantages are cost ($850 I think) and
balanced analog IO. Also the Tascam is Black and The Fostex is white (yuk).
>This worries me -- mostly since I don't know what the second deck will
>be yet.
Let the first deck determine the second. ;)
>every trader out there goes CD-R
It takes 3cd's to dupe a show. Until the blanks are $2 each you're not going
to see a lot of trading.
>I think that CD-R is going to be passed by DVD in the end anyway.
It'll be passed by something, I'm not sure it'll be DVD. If DVD has a
bulletproof copy protection scheme no one will be using it. I think it'll be
quite a while before DAT goes away as a trading and taping medium. I use CDR
for archiving and convenient listening. In the past 9 months I've only
copied 5 shows to CDR, it's a slow process.
A response:
D8 is an OK machine as I understand it, I've got a DAP1
and love it...understand your requirements, if that is
what you will use a D8 for, then that would be an
appropriate solution for it...now or later...for now!
DA-20 is a good machine, you can get it for $725
including shipping from Hi-Fi Sales ask for Jim Oade...
tell him that I sent you...:-) {pmc's note: EVERYONE said this same thing! 8^D}
as to your confusion, no, in general there are three
types of digital I/O form factors (mostly the signal
packets don't change, just some electrical differences
and perhaps some other minor differences you
don't need to worry about right now).
1) Optical - special optical cable...optical
to optical only
2) SP/DIF - The form factor is EXACTLY the
same as RCA jack...you don't have
to buy a special cable!
3) AES/BU - XLR type of cable...also slightly
different signaling (may not get part
of incoming digital packets - 147 bit
packets that the dat data come in are
called packets). But all the data
(music) gets through!
4) you can get RCA Input or Output to XLR Ouput
or Input conversion cables...
5) you can get D8 <> coax cables as well as XLR
cables as well as you might consider an
optical, if you have a deck that supports
it (see below for DA-20 low-down)
DA-20 has only RCA! That works with a SONY (with that
dumb (not for SONY - they get more $'s) adaptor cable)
that will work fine! D5 has digital optical and XLR connections
and XLR analog connections (just like a pro/mixer/monitor
board connection).
Now the analog out may be RCA or it may be XLR, in the
D5's case, both digital and analog I/O are profesional (XLR)
DA20 does have the ability to defeat SCMS...
Once you get 00 Tape, then all clones are 00 SCMS as well!
most pro decks ignore incoming SCMS and also write 00
SCMS...thus making it a master!
all/most decks run @ 44.1khz, so that isn't really a problem!
A response:
That's what I like to hear. As for the connectors, what's on the rear
panel? Obviously RCA stero I/O, but what digital connectors? I'm still
unclear as to what's what in terms of optical, coaxial, and whatever
it is that SONY is providing (I keep hearing "7-pin").
coaxial digital. the SONY portables use a proprietary 7 pin connector
which you can buy SONY cables for to provide coaxial in or optical in
and out. if you go this route, i'd recommend buying something from
Len Moskowitz at Core Sound instead, he is cheaper and makes more
useful gear.
May I ask, what to get with it? Extended warranty? cables, etc.
you won't need anything else. i'd buy an extended warranty.
I'm thinking more long term. I'm one of those traders that likes to
"spread" the tunes and trade and make copies and hand out free tapes
to people and friends. I feel a little funny about being a "mooch" for
what could be many many months [...]
well, you'll want two decks sooner rather than later, then, but if you
feel guilty, you could sign up to do D>A and make cassettes for
friends. that's how i started -- presumably you've got good cassette
decks and there are a LOT of folks out there who would love to get
nice D>A from your DAT deck rather than getting some crufty A>A from
some guy using a Technics double deck in 2x mode with Dolby on :-)
[...]
>i'd also strongly strongly strongly recommend NOT using 90M tapes in
What's the drawback? What length do you use?
from what i recall on the subject, DAT decks determine the appropriate
amount of tension based on what they believe is the current position
of the tape. if the tension is incorrect, either the tape ends up too
far from the heads or it ends up being pushed too hard against the
head, causing shedding. both will cause dropouts. the tension is
looked up in a table based on the type of the tape currently loaded.
this means that a deck must specifically support 90M tapes. there are
very few decks which support 90M tapes -- i think the only one i have
heard of is a pro deck costing $1500+.
when i used 90M tapes i found that dubs i was making would often have
dropouts in them, and that tapes i had would sometimes play fine and
other times would have dropouts.
i use 60M tapes -- 120 minutes in length -- exclusively now.
this is more or less a religious issue with people. those who have
had no problems wit Other Articles - Super Stereo Soundboard Recording
by Gary Davis
[ This document was posted to DAT-Heads Digest #734 on 24 September 1997 ]
"Making a live tape of your band, or someone else's?
Our SSS technique will give you a radical stereo recording!"
Stereo Soundboard Recording: Excellent!
If you've ever tried to make a soundboard recording of a live band, you've
probably been disappointed with the tape. In a typical board tape, the
guitars will be weak because a mix that's right for the room will be all
wrong for recording. And "stereo" is a word most club soundmen have
never heard.
Great stereo recordings are possible, using the Super Stereo Soundboard
technique described in this article. By using special cables to tap key
signals (guitar and bass) from the insert jacks, and mixing them live to a
portable DAT recorder, you can produce a radical stereo recording with the
guitars up front. The equipment can fit completely in a camera bag
(including the mixer, recorder, power supplies, headphones & amp, cables,
flashlight, etc.) and sets up in under 15 minutes. With a few more
connections, you can get stereo drums and vocals as well.
Soundboard->DAT: What's Wrong With this Recording?
Each of us once believed that a perfect stereo recording could be achieved
simply by plugging into a live soundboard. But unless you're recording in
very large venues (arenas and amphitheaters), you soon learned that the
board output in smaller venues is severely lacking in guitars, or more
specifically, consists mainly of vocals and drums, and it's usually in mono
to boot. The louder an instrument is on the stage, the less likely it is to
show up in the soundboard mix. The band with the loudest rippin' guitars
will sound like nothing on a direct soundboard tape!
If you could get two extra Aux's on the board, you could make your own
mix, either from the individual channels or at the matrix. Trouble is, most
small boards don't have two Aux's to spare (especially if the main board
is also being used to mix the monitors), and even if you had the Aux's,
you'd be working over the soundman's shoulder all night to adjust the mix.
Another usable technique is to mix the soundboard with a room mike. You
can get adequate guitar levels this way, but the guitars will be more
"distant" than the vocals and drums, and there's no way to get true stereo.
Even if you recorded a stereo soundboard output, plus stereo room mikes,
and panned the guitars hard left and hard right on the soundboard, you still
wouldn't hear it that way on your recording. With 90% of the guitar sound
coming from the "directionless" room mikes, panning the guitars on the
soundboard doesn't accomplish anything!
Of course, you could use mike splitters at the stage and do a complete mix
yourself, perhaps in a truck outside the venue. This is how professionals
record live shows, and if you've got the time, money, and connections,
you'll probably get a decent recording this way. If not, read on...
Insert Jacks to the Rescue!
If only there was a way to tap into key individual channels on a
soundboard, and mix them with the main output to get a full sound. Larger
soundboards may have individual channel "Line Outs," but these are
usually post-fader, which means you're totally at the mercy of the
soundman for the level, which may change throughout the show.
The solution: even a small club soundboard will have Insert jacks, and
these are usually available (unused) on the guitars and bass (sometimes
the bass will have a compressor plugged into the Insert... you'll have to get
the soundman to do without it). The Insert is typically a 1/4" stereo phone
plug, with the "Tip" sending the signal and the "Ring" expecting the signal
back. By building special cables that connect the Tip and Ring together,
you can tap off the board signals.
For starters, we'll need three such cables: two for guitars and one for bass.
(We'll get more advanced later on). There are two ways to obtain these
"Insert-Extraction" cables. The best way is to take an existing multi-wire
RCA (or 1/4" phone) cable, cut the plugs off at one end, and solder on
specially-wired stereo 1/4" plugs. If this sounds too difficult, a combination
of "Y" cables can accomplish the same connection.
Some people will question if it's "safe" to plug into the Insert jacks.
Clearly, there is an opportunity to disrupt the house sound if your cables
aren't wired properly. Build your cables carefully, push them in firmly, and
you shouldn't have a problem. There is also the possibility of creating a
grounding problem. Since my recommended equipment runs off batteries
and wall-warts, this shouldn't occur. (If you use AC-powered equipment,
always get your power from the soundboard power strips, and bring
"ground-lift" adapters for 3-prong plugs, just in case).
In actual use, I've connected this system more than 30 times and never
had a problem: every suspected problem has turned out to be in the club's
wiring.
Naturally, this Insert jack technique can also be used for multi-track
(ADAT/DTRS) recording. This brings about its own unique set of problems,
which I hope to cover in a future article.
(Note: while most soundboards use 1/4" stereo Insert jacks which combine
send and return, some larger soundboards, such as the Soundcraft 800
series, use separate 1/4" jacks for send and return. In this case, you can
plug a regular 1/4" plug into the Insert "Send" jack without interrupting the
signal. Don't use the board's "Line" or "Direct" outputs, because unless
they can be switched to "pre-fader," they are usually post-fader, which is
not where you want to be!
(Also, some boards with combined send/return insert jacks use the ring for
send and tip for return. That will make no difference in our application).
Radio Shack Parts
In order to accomplish Super Stereo Soundboard (SSS) recording, we will
need certain cables and adapters. For convenience and clarity, I will
specify Radio Shack parts, including part numbers (identified as RS#).
Radio Shack parts may have their detractors, but they generally do work,
are widely available, and reasonably priced.
I do have a complaint about Radio Shack's current line of plastic RCA
cables: the plugs seems especially "grabby," which means you must push
them on extra-firmly, and they are somewhat difficult to remove. When
disconnecting, remove the plugs with care: the jack you break may be
your own! (If you break the record-out on someone else's soundboard, do
you think they'll fix it for you??)
I must also strongly advise against Radio Shack's "gold and plastic"
female-female RCA connectors (RS#271-874): they don't make good
connections! The silver-colored ones (RS#274-1553) work fine. (I've
haven't tried the new "all gold" model RS#274-864).
Quality adapters and cables are available from Switchcraft and many other
companies. Feel free to substitute and buy whatever brand you feel
comfortable with.
Building your Insert-Extraction Cables: Soldering Iron Approach
If you can cut the end off a cable and solder on a new plug, you shouldn't
have too much trouble building an elegant set of Insert-Extraction cables.
1/4" plugs as quite large and easy to work with. If you're not familiar with
soldering, this is no time to learn, and you should skip to the next section
for the "solderless" approach.
For the "beginner's" SSS kit, we will build three Insert-Extraction cables:
two for left and right guitars, and one for bass. It is very convenient to use
a triple-RCA cable which is sold for video+stereo audio. Try to find one
where all three cables are the same type of wire, such as the 12-foot
RS#15-1512. It's important to use cables of adequate thickness: I've also
tried Radio Shack's "quad" RCA cable for tape recorders (RS#42-2355),
and the wires were too thin, producing an unreliable cable. (If your mixer
or ADAT uses 1/4" plugs, get three cables with 1/4" plugs at one end, and
"anything" on the other end, such as Radio Shack #42-2378).
We'll also need three 1/4" Stereo (3-wire) phone plugs, such as RS#274-
139.
Cut off all three RCA plugs from one end of the cable. Unscrew the first
stereo phone plug, and slip the case over the wire from one RCA cable.
Strip and prepare the RCA cable wire, and solder the inner wire (signal) to
BOTH hot terminals (tip and ring) on the phone plug (see Figure 1).
Solder the shield to the ground terminal (sleeve). To avoid melting the
insulation, let the plug cool before this next step: gently squeeze the
ground terminal over the cable to help anchor the cable. Trim your wires
and solder carefully, because a tiny short or bad connection in your wiring
can kill the sound in the room!
Before screwing the case onto the plug, inspect the wiring carefully for
stray strands which could cause a short. (If you forgot about the case, you
can now cut off the plug and start over!) You should test your finished
cable with an ohm meter or continuity tester: especially, test for shorts
between the signal and ground while wiggling the cable where it goes into
the plugs at both ends.
After wiring all three cables, it is very important to label the phone plugs
we've just added! I use a Brother P-Touch labeler with white-on-black
tape, and wrap the label around the body of the plug. For a less expensive
approach, use white tape labels or white paper tape, and a black pen. I
label my plugs "Left-W" "Right-R" and "Bass-Y" (white/red/yellow), for
left and right guitars, and bass.
Insert-Extraction Cables: Solderless Approach
If you don't feel comfortable soldering, you can create Insert-Extraction
cables by combining two Y-Cables: a 1/4" stereo plug > 2 RCA jack
(left/right splitter; RS#42-2477) and a 2 RCA plug > RCA jack (RS#42-
2435). (This combination will be bulkier and messier behind the
soundboard, and provide more connections to go wrong, which is why
custom-built cables are better).
For starters, we'll need three Insert-Extraction cables: two for left and right
guitars, and one for the bass. You'll need three each of the above Y-
Cables, plus a 12-foot triple RCA>RCA cable, such as RS#15-1512. (If
your mixer or ADAT uses 1/4" phone plugs, you'll also need three
RCA>1/4" adapters, RS#274-320). There's really only one way you can
wire these three parts together, but if you're not sure, refer to Figure 2.
If you use a multi-wire cable, you still have the original colored plugs on
both ends of the cables, so it's probably not necessary to label them. If
you use three separate cables, you should label both ends "1, 2, and 3" or
"Left", "Right", and "Bass".
The Mixer: Roland MX-5
Since we're going to be doing our own mix, we'll need a small mixer.
Several suitable mixers are available, but I chose the Roland MX-5 for its
small size and low price (under $200). The MX-5 is a tiny (under 9X7X3
inches), lightweight (1.75 lbs) plastic mixer which offers 10 input channels
(all in stereo pairs), with gain trim, stereo pan, and real sliding level
controls for four stereo pairs. (The 5th "Aux" pair has a single gain pot).
All line inputs are RCA jacks.
The MX-5 offers three sets of outputs plus a headphone jack: a "record
out" at fixed level, two sets of "main outs" with level controlled by the
master volume slider, and a front-panel 1/8" mini stereo headphone jack,
with level controlled by a rotary pot. I use the "record out" for my recorder,
and offer the "main outs" to other tapers. If someone unplugs and shorts
the "main outs" (it's happened!), it doesn't affect my "record out."
(Sometimes I use the headphone out for another recorder; if you do, don't
set the level above 6).
The MX-5 runs off a 9-volt battery, but not for very long! If you're taping
several bands, you might want to change the battery before the headliner.
You might want to use an external AC supply. The voltage, polarity, and
connector are fairly common, and I found a suitable wall-wart in my junk
box.
There are a few drawbacks to the Roland MX-5. Since all the channels
are stereo pairs, you can run out of channels, especially if you mix the
drums yourself. It lacks "cue/solo" buttons, which would be very useful to
check your connections and judge the sound on each channel. It can
overload if you work too loud, and if you're tempted to mix in a mike, the
mike pre-amps are a bit noisy. Finally (and this is important!) the
headphone jack isn't loud enough for our purposes.
Another popular portable mixer is the Mackie MS-1202VLZ. At $429, it's
twice the price of the Roland MX-5, and at 6 1/2 lbs, measuring 11X12X3
inches, and requiring 3-wire AC power, it's not really as portable (but notice
the thin-ness, which does allow it to be carried in a bag or briefcase). One
look at the specs will tell you this is a much better mixer! The new "VLZ"
model adds an important feature: Solo/Cue buttons on all channels, and
it has more inputs (4 mono + 4 stereo pairs, plus 2 Aux returns), and better
metering. It also has a lot of features we don't really need, like three eq's
(and two Aux's) for each channel (in this environment, you can barely hear
well enough to adjust the mix, never mind messing around with eq!) The
space of those five pots is where sliding level controls could have gone;
instead, as many 1202 owners complain, this Mackie mixer offers space-
saving rotary knobs for the channel volumes. Back to the plus side: the
headphone output is pretty loud. All line inputs are 1/4".
Another suitable mixer is the Soundcraft Spirit Folio Notepad. Larger than
the Roland but smaller and much lighter than the Mackie, priced under
$250, the Folio Notepad also uses rotary level controls. It lacks Solo/Cue
buttons, requires AC power, and has only 10 inputs including the Aux
returns. Four mono inputs are 1/4", two stereo pairs are RCA.
The Recorder: Sony D8 Portable DAT
Any stereo tape recorder can be used here, but for our purposes, the
diminutive Sony D8 DAT recorder (or the even smaller new Sony D100)
will serve well. We don't need XLR inputs or mike pre-amps for our
purposes, so a larger "pro" DAT just isn't necessary.
The date/time recording feature on the D8 is very useful to help identify
recordings, particularly if you put several short sets on each tape. By
keeping a set of AA batteries in the D8 at all times, it will remember the
date/time when you plug it in.
Monitoring, or, "What you can't hear will HURT you!"
We're going to do a live mix while loud music plays in the room.
No professional would ever attempt something so foolish, yet this is
necessary to accomplish SSS recording.
Most people will use Sony MDR-V6 or similar headphones, such as the
professional version Sony MDR-7506 or Koss Pro-4A. These Sony
headphones have a reputation for loud sound, and for blocking out at least
some outside noise. On the downside, their bass response isn't that good,
and they don't really block out enough sound, so if you have headphones
which really seal out the environment, by all means use them! Regular
"walkman" phones and open-air phones (such as the otherwise excellent
Grado phones) cannot be used for this purpose.
The Sony D8 recorder gives the loudest undistorted output when set to
"Line," not "Phones." Even so, it's not loud enough for our purposes,
especially if you record in a "safe" volume range. The headphone output
on the Roland mixer isn't much better. If you've chosen a larger DAT
recorder or better mixer, you *may* have enough level... if not, consider a
headphone amp.
Headroom (800-828-8184) makes portable headphone amps which will
solve the problem (but they're rather pricey at $250-$600), or you may
have a spare receiver or amp lying around the house which you can use.
For my purposes, I built a very small and inexpensive headphone amp
using Radio Shack LM386 chips (a mere $1.29 each! -- look for a future
construction article).
Headroom also markets an in-ear headphone called the Etymotic
ER-4S ($330), which claims to seal the ear canal completely, offering
the maximum possibly isolation. Still, your skin and bones will
transmit some venue sound straight to your inner ear!
Consider getting *outside* the venue for monitoring. At one club where I
record, the soundbooth is adjacent to a side door with a mail slot. I usually
run a 20-foot mini-stereo headphone extension cable (RS#42-2462) out the
mail slot, so I can check my mix outside the club.
Additional Cables
In addition to the Insert-Extraction cables, we will need a stereo cable for
the main soundboard output. Many boards have a "record out," "stereo
out," or otherwise extra set of jacks of the main mix. On larger boards, you
may use two Aux's for this purpose. Either way, the outputs may be RCA,
1/4", or XLR-male. Your kit should have cables for all three. For RCA and
1/4", consider the 12-foot gold-plated stereo audio cable RS#42-2606
(avoid the plastic-plug version RS#42-2356 as it may have the "grabby"
plugs I spoke of earlier). For 1/4", you can simply add adapters to the
RCA cable (Radio Shack #274-320).
XLR>RCA cables are not available from Radio Shack, but are made by a
company called Audible Purity Cable. The model RFX-10 (female XLR,
10-foot) is ideal for our purposes. (This cable is available from The DAT
Store at (310) 828-6487). If you don't need two of these for the main outs,
you may need them later to access the group outputs for drum extraction.
As another option, most music stores sell XLR>1/4" cables, which will also
work for our purposes, as inputs 1-4 on the Roland MX-5 also accept 1/4"
plugs. Caution: you do NOT want the XLR>1/4" *transformers* sold by
Radio Shack. They are designed for mike level, not a hot board, and they
may distort.
When recording directly from XLR outputs to consumer equipment such as
the Sony D8, level matching is usually a problem, but the Roland MX-5
mixer accepts levels up to +4dB board level, so we shouldn't have any
trouble, unless the board output is unusually hot (this can occur if your
output in from a +4 "Aux" turned all the way up -- set it at 7 max!)
Of course, you'll also need a cable from the mixer to your recorder, which
in our case, is a short dual-RCA > 1/8" stereo miniplug cable, such as
RS#24-2475.
A small flashlight is also necessary.
Power Wiring
You can run the whole setup from batteries, but if you prefer to use AC, be
prepared! I bring a regular 6-foot extension cord (RS#61-2744) which
allows me to plug in my wall-warts (for the D8 and the mixer) without tying
up a whole power strip. (For the Mackie mixer, you'll need a three-wire
extension cord with multiple outlets, such as RS#61-2765). If you need
additional outlets for a headphone amp, extra recorders, or whatever, be
sure to bring enough! I also bring a grounded triple outlet adapter (RS#61-
2705) so that even if all the power outlets at the board are used, I can
create more.
Gaining Access: It's not who you know, but how you ask...
Clearly, you cannot connect all these wires to the soundboard without
permission from the band and cooperation from the soundman.
Developing a good relationship with a certain club or certain band will help
give you access for SSS recordings.
Plan to arrive early and run into the band during soundcheck, but probably,
they won't have time for you until after soundcheck, so you won't get to
soundcheck your equipment. If the headliner won't let you record, perhaps
an opening band will. (Warning: on most larger soundboards, the headliner
and openers use different sets of channels, so the setup for the openers
is completely different from the headliner).
The official list of "Bands that Allow Taping" can be found at the "Info"
icon of the DAT-Head's site at http://www.eklektix.com/dat-heads/.
This list is just a starting point, because a band that allows microphones
may not be ready for you to re-wire their soundboard! On the other hand,
a band that doesn't have an official taping policy could well allow Super
Stereo Soundboard recording if you approach them early and promise a
copy.
Here's the best trick I've found for getting permission: in addition to my
DAT recorder, I bring my old Sony WMD-6C (analog cassette recorder)
loaded with a blank tape. This way I can run a copy for the band at the
same time. By offering the band a copy right after the show, you're
providing an actual service (instead of just promising to send it sometime,
maybe, in the future). Any analog stereo recorder will do; just be aware of
additional requirements for input cables and power (I always run the WMD-
6C off rechargeable batteries because I've got too many wall-warts
already). If your analog recorder only has mike inputs, run it from the
headphone output on the mixer, set to "3," with an 1/8" stereo > 1/8" stereo
cable (RS#42-2387).
Final tips: be sure the batteries in your recorder and mixer are fresh, bring
an extra DAT blank, and arrive early!
SSS Recording: The Basic Mix
Basic SSS recording involves taking the main soundboard output, and
adding guitar and bass "helper" channels. Recalling from Soundboard 101
that the main output consists mainly of vocals and drums, we simply add
the guitars and bass, and viola: music emerges!
Connect the main stereo soundboard output into your mixer; for the Roland
MX-5, use inputs 1&2 (first slider). Ask the soundman which channels the
guitars and bass are using, and plug your Insert-Extraction cables into the
Insert jacks for those channels. (The guitars will almost never have
anything using those jacks, but there might be a compressor plugged into
the bass jack. You'll have to "negotiate" the compressor out of the circuit,
or use the "line" or "direct" board outputs for the bass (in which case
you should use a standard 1/4" plug, or plug the "insert-extraction"
cable in only to the first click), or, look for an insert or "sidechain"
jack on the compressor).
There are several ways you can arrange the bass and guitars in your mix.
If the band has two guitars, typically, you would put the guitars on left and
right and the bass in the center. If the band has only one guitar, you can
put the bass on one side and the guitar on the other. This will break the
common mix rule to always put bass in the center, but will lead to a more
interesting recording. (If you record with the bass in the center and the
guitar on one side, you may "cheat" the guitar by making the bass more
prominent). If the band has one guitar and another lead instrument (such
as a violin, horn, or keyboard), you can put that instrument on the channel
opposite the guitar, and keep the bass in the center.
Keep in mind you'll get a small amount of mono guitar and bass from
the main board output, so even if you pan them hard left and right on
your board, you'll still get a pleasing amount of cross-channel sound
in the mix.
On the Roland MX-5, I use channels 5&6, 7&8 for the bass and guitars,
because the gain trim pots for these channels have the same range
(channels 1-4 have extended range for microphone sensitivity, so the
sensitivity between 3&4 and 5&6 is not the same). If you have two guitars
(or similar), connect them to 7&8, and connect the bass in mono through
a Y-cable (RS#42-2435) to 5&6 (see Figure 3). If you have only one
guitar, you can connect the bass to 5 and the guitar to 6, but for more
control, connect them both to Y-cables (RS#42-2435) so you can run bass
into 5&6 and guitar into 7&8 (see Figure 4).
For the Mackie 1202 or Folio Notepad mixer, your first 4 channels are
mono and the following channels are stereo, so we're going to reverse the
order. Connect the main board into channels 5&6 (the first stereo pair),
bass to channel 1, and guitar(s) to channels 2 and 3. Pan these channels
as appropriate (see figure 5).
While the band is setting up, you may want to turn the gain (sensitivity)
pots way up on each channel to make sure you hear something *other
than* hiss, to verify you're connected properly. Preferably, you should hear
people talking or warming up their instruments. Before recording, turn the
gains *all the way down*, because rock'n roll tends to be louder than you
expect! (For softer jazz, I'll set them up one notch to start).
Some people will want to mix in room mikes was well. On the Roland MX-5, you have inputs 3&4 free, and these can be adjusted to mike level.
However, my experience is that with the added guitars, you can make a
very nice "pure" soundboard without any added mikes. (You'll pick up
some room sound from the vocal mikes or drum overheads anyway). It's
also very difficult to hear the room sound through headphones to adjust the
right amount (it sounds exactly like the room sound leaking through the
sides of the headphones!) However, if your vocals sound too harsh and
un-processed, adding some room sound may help.
I prefer to set the record level on the DAT machine fairly high (8) so that
I can work at a lower volume on the mixer. The Roland MX-5 has two red
"over" lights: when they flash, your recording isn't ruined, but if they flash
a lot, it's a good bet your recording will be more distorted than you'll like!
I usually start with the sliders pretty-much equal for all channels being
used.
Hit record. The music starts. Now LISTEN! This is the most important
part of successful SSS recording! Suddenly, you are the recording
engineer, and every decision you make, right or wrong, will be reflected on
your final tape.
No matter how loud your headphones, no matter how tightly you hold them
to your ears, and even if you listen from outside the venue, you can never
completely isolate yourself from the room sound, especially if it's a loud
rock band! Listen carefully... can you hear the vocals? The guitars? Are
they about the same volume, or do you have to struggle to hear one or the
other? Now the bass... adjusting the bass level is the hardest, since the
bass sound in the room will overwhelm your headphones. If you can hear
the "pluck pluck" of the bass clearly in the headphones, it might be too
loud; turn it down a bit. Don't be afraid to change the sliders while you
record: you may improve the mix (or you may screw it up).
If there are several bands, listen to your recordings between bands. How
does the recorded sound compare to what you remember through the
headphones? I've also been known to bring two Sony D8's, recording on
both simultaneously, and unplugging one after I think I've got it "right." I
then carry my sample recording to the bathroom, or outside the venue, for
a quick listen, while the other D8 continues to record the show.
When the music's over, unplug your cables and go home! Instead of the
typical vocals and drums soundboard, you will now possess a recording
with loud, raunchy, Stereo guitars! Enjoy it!
Advanced SSS Recording
Our basic technique will assure loud, stereo guitars & bass. But what if we
want to bring up the drums in stereo or have more control over the vocals?
In next month's EQ, I'll explain a number of soundboard configurations to
obtain even better Super Stereo Soundboard recordings.
If you want to experiment in the mean time, here's an important tip: if you
pan individual channels on the main soundboard, and expect it to send to
your mixer in stereo, you MUST pan all the "group master" pan-pots
alternating Left, Right, Left, Right. Otherwise, any panning on individual
channels will be lost in the group mix. Happy taping!
Gary Davis has been exploring innovative personal recording techniques
for more than 30 years. He records Nels Cline and "new jazz" every
Monday night at the Alligator Lounge in Santa Monica, California, and rock
bands when possible. If you make a good Super Stereo Soundboard tape,
he'd be happy to trade DATs with you. You can reach him at
gdavis@loop.com.
For more information about DAT recording in general, subscribe to the
DAT-Heads mailing list by sending the text "subscribe" to dat-heads-request@fedney.near.net.
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