The VH Trade Site Forums Archives

[VHLIVE]

Hello all, I am about to buy a new DVD Recorder stanalone unit. To be perfectly honest, there are so many panasonic recorder models out right now that I am at a loss as to what to buy. When it comes right down to it, all I want to do is record right off my digital cable onto dvd and also dub dvd to dvd as well as dub old vhs footage onto dvd. If anyone has any recomendations as to what to buy, I would appreciate it.

Thanks

Shawn
rocknrollvideo@yahoo.com

Concert Video/DVD Website
http://www.angelfire.com/mac/rocknrollvideocanada/

[tstronge]

It looks like you and me are in the same situation. I have talked to one guy with a panasonic dmr-e50 and he told me he was very happy with it. One of the features he liked and I think this is on most of them is if you had a show that was 123min you can set it to record 125min. I think that how it works. I am also looking at getting a panasonic recorder, just have not made up my made yet. I quess the big question is if you want one with a hard dive. If I get one before you I will let you know what it is and what it is like.

Trevor

[blu]

this is what I've learned:

If you have a standalone and make your own; you can NOT make menus and the machine puts the track markers where it wants every 3-5 minutes. If you're just wanting to save stuff off TV or old vids that's cool. But; if you're wanting to make some concerts or such it might not be a good idea as most people here create menus and such. I'm not sure if a standalone will burn a disc with menus and stuff created on a PC based machine. Guitard (Randy) definately knows more than me on this; this is just stuff I've heard. Fletch and Yerf make there own too. Yerf's always floatin' around here but I think Fletch might still be down with stuff or busy. Hope this helps a tad.

[soman]

Hey guys

There was some mention of dubbing DVD to DVD on a stand alone. It is my understanding that using a stand alone dvd burner introduces a generation to the copy because you are in essence going from a digital to analog to digital signal. Cloning of boots on a stand alone is frowned upon by many in the trading community, particularly if you ruin menus, chapter points and add a level of generation to the copy. There a bunch of traders and authors on this board who may share the same observation

Now, that being said, I have been checking out the Panasonics with the the hard drive space, because they can apparently copy the dvd contents to the drive and then burn from there... Plus, in terms of recording directly from cable or satelitte signal, I've seen some awesome copies authored/produced by this method... Still working and exploring the details before I throw out the cash...

If you are considering dubbing commerical DVDs to make "back ups" with the stand alones (w/o HD) you still get generation issues if not encryption issues too.

PC burners are the only way to go, in terms of cloning and copying DVDs. The Panansonics with the Hard Drive capability kinda change this statement a little bit, but PC are cheaper than ever before and may be less expensive than some of the upper end standalones...

So in other words, from my limited understanding, stand alones can be excellent from direct sources, but in terms of cloning or dubbing... not so much...

Post in the DVD section to get more feedback... There a couple of the guys on this forum who are using the Panasonics and loving them. Most use PC based burners to copy and clone.

Good Luck and my $.02 :cool: :thumb:

soman

[soman]

Hey Blu... you beat me to it... :eek:

[Chris UK]

Blu, what you say about stand alone decks is not always true. I have a Philips DVDR 880 stand alone that works on the DVD+R/RW format which allows you to put custom chapter markers precisley where you want. It also allows you to pick a still image as a thumbnail for each title which forms the basis of a basic menu. I think the stand alone decks that only do chapter markers at regular intervals are of the DVD-R/RW format. DVD+R/RW is a much better format in terms of editing facilities, giving similar options to that of a mini-disc.

I author my footage using +RW discs on my stand alone and then when I am happy with the disc, I then duplicate it with my PC burner (NEC 1300A) to either a +R or a -R disc. I can then re-use the RW for another project.

Re - DVD to DVD dubbing - yes using this method does introduce some generation loss and it is much better to duplicate via a PC. The loss of menus and custom chaper markers is also a big dissadvantage and a waste of the original authors time. However, it is worth pointing out that the level of loss is much lower than the amount of loss you get taping from VHS to VHS. This is especially true if you connect your player to your stand alone using RGB (SCART) or Component connections. The losses using Y/C (S-video) or (particularly) Composite Video cables are greater. Good quality gold cables of the shortest length possible also make a difference.

Something also worth bearing in mind when you buy a deck is, does it have a built in Timebase Corrector? If you are going to do a lot of VHS conversions of old or generated tapes, you will need this facility. Some decks have them, some (like mine) dont. Without one you will have trouble duping tapes if they have drop-out or wobbly syncs. I have an external TBC that is also a standards converter (NTSC to PAL etc) and a colour corrector. Its called a GTH Electronics ACE converter, I cant recommend this unit enough for this type of work, here is there website -
http://www.gthelectronics.com/featurec.htm

Just my 2 penneth from a TV and video engineer of 22 years experience.

Chris.

[soman]

Thanks Chris!
Learn something new everyday!
Jeff

[VHLIVE]

Great help guys. I needed that help with the stanalone units. I am also in the middle of getting set-up with a G5 MAC and DVD Burner with photoshop, dvd studio pro 2 and a rtmac card, but I was wondering is it better to go with 2 drives for cloning purposes or one burner drive copied to the hard drive then copied back to the burner. Is the investment in 2 seperate dvd drives better for quality. Or no differnce at all. Sorry for all the qustions, but I am about to invest allot of money into my new dvd system and who better to ask then you guys who are already knee deep with expreience.

Thanks again for all the helpful information. I appreciate it allot.

Shawn
http://www.angelfire.com/mac/rocknrollvideocanada/

Toronto, Ontario
Canada

[Chris UK]

I have 2 drives, which is useful for copying drive to drive if I am in a hurry, as its quicker. However, most of the time I make an image on the hard drive and then burn from that. This process is slower, but I have been told it is preferable. Apparently, when you copy to the hard drive, the PC automatically does an error correction process that fixes corrupted files etc.

So IMO, a second drive is nice, but not essential. I would be interested to hear other peoples opinions on this too.

Cheers,
Chris.

[soman]

Hey!

I'm not too familiar with the Macs, but PC DVD drives are pretty inexpensive these days... Plus in terms of PCs, DVD drives (as opposed to burner) are able to successfully extract at a faster rate than the current generation of dvd burners. This may be different with the newer burners, but the generation that I purchased was purposely manufactured this way (with an extraction limit of I think 2x). The ideal set-up would be to have a DVD drive to extract to your hard drive and then a dvd burner to cook it up...
Depending on the speed of the computer and the buffer on both the software and the hardware kinda determine how well you will be able to burn on the fly (DVD to DVDR). The biggest risk is if you overload the buffer and get underrun errors (similar to burning CDRs), which manifest themselves as "bad burns" and/or the burner stops completely. A couple of guys on here are still old school... slower is better and the media is cheaper. Plus, it is easier to figure out where your problems are occurring. DVDs can be cooked up poorly and typically the ones that I have received are problematic towards the end of the DVD or the burn. So in other words, the key reason I would add a second DVD drive is for extraction to the hard drive purposes.
Sorry if this is only PC related, but as I mentioned... unfortunately no real experience with MAC. I do know that a trader friend of mine has some difficulties burning DVDs depending on what version of OS she is using... She has a dual OS environment, so that she can use different versions of software... particular versions of Toast and some other burning softwares...

Jeff

[VHLIVE]

I am not as concerned so much with the power of the processors or amount of ram. I am getting the G5 Dual 2gig processors and a gig of ram. I figure this is plenty and will have no problem burning. The mac's are set up for this. But I have no experience burning so this is why I wanted to make sure what I should buy, 1 or 2 dvd drives, one being a burner and one being a player as verses extracing to the hard drive then burning.

Shawn

http://www.angelfire.com/mac/rocknrollvideocanada/

[soman]

Shawn...

I'm not sure if the Macs have the same issue regarding limiting the DVD burners extraction speed, if so, it might be worthwhile to get the dvd reader/player.

Good luck... and give me a holler once you get some of your videos transferred... you have some awesome stuff on your list!

Jeff

[Chris UK]

Thanks Jeff.... now I've learned something today too!!

Cheers,
Chris.

[VHLIVE]

Yeah Jeff I am looking forward to getting going on DVD Burning. I am really interested in the Authoring side. I have some stuff I have been saving to put on DVD. {No not Van Halen) LOL...
So far it has been interesting to hear the opinions of people actually doing the burning.

Thanks for the info...

Shawn

http://www.angelfire.com/mac/rocknrollvideocanada/

[Scott Roberts]

Good topic guys, but this forum is more for music-oriented items like memorabilia and collectables. Questions about technical things such as burners and software are better suited for Trade Chat, so I'll move it there. :)